[00:00:28] Speaker A: Welcome to the very first episode of thecosmic cafe.
[email protected] on this show, we're going to be talking to different people in fandoms about how they got into said fandom and how that fandom, usually a nostalgic fandom, affected how they are a fan of things.
[00:00:44] Speaker B: Today.
[00:00:44] Speaker A: I just said fan a bunch of times. Deal with it. Anyway, so for this episode, we had great conversation with Thomas Carter Rochester. Now, if you haven't seen him around, he does a lot of marvel and star wars stuff. He is an actor, voice actor and podcaster. And one of his podcasts is called reckless rebellion, and it is a star wars podcast. So if you like this episode, you should definitely check that out. But without further ado, here is our awesome conversation.
[00:01:09] Speaker B: Hope you enjoy it.
So, thank you so much for coming and joining us today.
[00:01:18] Speaker C: Oh, thank you for having me. It's always a pleasure talking to you, Julia.
[00:01:22] Speaker B: Thank you. So we are talking star wars, all the things about star wars or not all the things about star wars. We're really talking about the original six movies. So the original trilogy and the prequel trilogy. So episodes one through six, because that's what's nostalgic for you. And we are talking about your nostalgia for the series, how it shaped your fandom, all that stuff, all the stuff we talk about here at the cosmic cafe. So, yeah, let's get into it. How did you first become a fan of star wars?
[00:01:51] Speaker C: In 1997, I believe, when blockbuster still existed, my dad, I believe, took me to see jurassic park the lost world, and we saw a poster for the phantom menace. And he's like, oh, my god, star wars movie. And I was like, what is star wars? And he goes, I haven't shown you star wars. I'm a failure as a father. He didn't say that, but he should have. And then he showed me star wars, like, in a weekend. And I think I watched four, five, and six, the original theatrical cuts, like twice in the weekend. And from that point forward, I was just hooked. And two years later, phantom menace came out. I was nine years old, and I'd already done fighting stuff. So I grabbed every stick in the world and it became a lightsaber from that day forward. And then that actually shaped like my that's what hooked me in filmmaking because I would watch the behind the scenes and he would tell me the stories about how they invented all of these techniques in filmmaking, which I'm also an actor, so that is where I started getting all of my love. It really all started from star wars because I also found spider man right after that led to marvel. And marvel and star wars have a lot in common. I knew about Batman from when I was a child, and so it all just kind of coalesced built up. And then at the end of revenge, of the sith. I always thought Star wars was going to be done, and they've made a lot of Star wars. And I assure you, I ingest all the Star wars books, comics, games, TVs, movies, and everything else that may or may not come out.
So that's my very not short version of how I got into Star wars. It started with a lot of things inside of the universe of Star wars. It started with my father.
[00:03:37] Speaker B: Good. So what about Star Wars grabbed you at first? Like, what was the first thing?
[00:03:43] Speaker C: Laser swords are always pretty cool. Every little kid likes a sword. But a laser sword blew my mind all I could think because I've always been scientifically based in thought because of schooling. And I'm just like, how would you make a lightsaber? Well, if you had, like, a plasma cannon, you have to cap it off somehow. So then I started doing way more existential thoughts at seven years old about how to design a lightsaber than should be done. But the technology of it fascinated me. But the force and the power of the force and that it's like this energy field that surrounds you and guide you and can let you glean information from other people with casual looks. And it kind of is about the energy. To me, I always looked at it as the energy between all living beings because that's what they said in the first movie. But you can take that as an empathic human being and you can feel the energy of others in a crowd and be like, well, this person kind of wants this. This person is kind of wanting this. And you can kind of help everybody do their thing or manipulate them and be a dark side user, but balance.
[00:04:52] Speaker B: So when you went to phantom menace, I assume you saw that in theaters, right? You said or did you say?
[00:04:57] Speaker C: I did, yes.
[00:04:59] Speaker B: You've seen all them in theaters since let's just get that. Is that true?
[00:05:02] Speaker C: That is very true. Phantom menace was my first theater experience.
[00:05:05] Speaker B: So what did you mean? Obviously you'd only been a Star wars fan for, I think, two years at that point, right? So you wouldn't have that much nostalgia for it. Like maybe your father would have. But what did you think? What was your experience with that? Because was there the crowds like you hear about now at the different Star wars and marvel ones and all the event movies or what was it like?
[00:05:28] Speaker C: No, because my dad would not acquiesce to my begging and pestering to go in the opening time. He's like, no, trust me, you don't want to deal with those crowds. And I was like, I just want to see the movie. But so I think we went two weeks later, maybe something like that, because I'm nine, I didn't have a car. It was really rude. But we went and I loved it.
I loved Jar Jar Binks because I was nine. And I love Dumb comedy. It's always been a top notch level of my comedic takes with Jim Carrey and the such of my early childhood.
And I personally just fell in love with Darth Maul. The whole double bladed lightsaber. I love both staffs. And I was gripped by it, and I was like, wow. So midichlorians? What are Midichlorians? Is that like atoms and DNA?
Because atoms have space in between them. And my dad is like, what are you talking about, son? And I was like, Just physics, dad. I was gripped by everything in that movie. And the thing that really stood out to me was Natalie Portman. You could tell that she was just a powerhouse of an actress and entertainer, even with the bland dialogue. And it really comes to that ending sequence, she's really timid, and then when she stands up at the end and is like, well, I'm actually the queen, and kneels before the gungans and stuff, and it's like, misa like this.
I hope I made someone angry by quoting the gungans there.
[00:07:07] Speaker B: Yeah. I take it you're a science kid then, or you were definitely a science kid if you're talking about atoms and physics at like eight or nine years old.
[00:07:14] Speaker C: Yes, very was always big into science and math, and I ended up with a civil engineering degree just because I.
[00:07:21] Speaker B: A lot that's so different from what you're doing now.
Can we just talk about that for a SEC? How did you switch from civil engineering to acting, directing and such? What made you decide to do that?
[00:07:36] Speaker C: The short answer is I went on a year walkabout.
I call it my walkabout. I was really drinking heavily because of copious depression. My grandma died a week after I graduated college. I already knew I wasn't into civil engineering. I was just doing it because I was good at it. And in my head, kind college was always my plan B. And I was like, I'll figure out what I want to do while I'm at college. And then I graduated and was like, Well, I don't know what I want to do. So I went on a year of figuring out life. And then at the end of 2015, the Force Awakens came out, actually, and it regripped me back into a whole different level of obsession in Star Wars to where I went and watched all six seasons at the time. Of the Clone Wars that they'd put out and got a Sith tattoo on my ribs, like, a week later just to have the emblems. And I decided, you know what? I've always loved this. Star wars is what brought me in, so why not just, I'm not going to be happy doing civil engineering. My grandma would have wanted me to at least swing for the fences, so why not jump into the deep end like the crazy kid I've always been? And I've looked back going, wow. I did that with such vigor that it's so surprising. And it's a vastly different part of my brain having to be used from engineering and science and tactical to abstract and creative and stuff, but every now and then, they cross over in those existential moments like the Force and Star Wars.
[00:09:10] Speaker B: So Star Wars kind of brings all your loves of things in life together.
[00:09:14] Speaker C: It kind of really does.
[00:09:18] Speaker B: Yeah. So that's cool. That's like, a really good story. Wow.
I also did want to ask, so with that, did you view Star Wars differently when you were older than when you were younger at all? Did it change, especially with the culture surrounding it changing?
[00:09:36] Speaker C: It did.
The prequel movies were made for me because I was a child at the time, and I got older in angsty with Anakin.
And was I 13? I was 13 when Revenge of the Sith came out. So it came out and I'm like, yeah, it's great. But even then, I was already a film, quote unquote film critic. I watched enough movies to know what I wanted from vader's delivery of those lines, and it wasn't what I wanted, but I was like, you know what? It is what it is. And as I've gotten older about that time is when the Internet culture really was hating on the prequels. Everyone hated the prequels. I definitely hold the prequels at a lower tier of success, I would say, than the original trilogy. There are certain things that are clunky, there are certain things that just aren't done right, and they keep pushing the technology forward, but it doesn't have that same close heart. And to be fair, it's meant to rip your heart out, that whole prequel trilogy. So it does the job. And as I've gotten older and gone back and rewatched know, I used to love Jar Jar Binks. I do not like Jar Jar Binks. He is very annoying to me, and I think that's why I liked him when I was younger, because I was like, oh, my God, look, it's me, misa Jaja Binks.
[00:11:04] Speaker B: I probably would have stand, too, when I was younger. I didn't see these movies, okay? I didn't see the prequel trilogy till late 2020, early 2021. It was around new year's Eve, and I didn't see the original ones until, like, I don't think I watched the original ones until 2015 when the Force awakens was coming out. This was saying, I think, because I was turned off by how I heard about the fans were very toxic and complaining and everything, and it just didn't seem like as good a time because when I was a kid, I always wanted to watch Star Wars. I guess. I don't know, maybe my parents thought it would be too scary for me. I don't know. But I'd seen other stuff that was scary, so maybe not. I don't know. I always wanted to watch it and then when I got older. I'm glad I finally watched it when I was the original trilogy, at least when I was 19. But yeah, I saw the whole sequel trilogy prior to the prequel trilogy.
[00:11:49] Speaker C: I'm intrigued. How did that color your experience on the prequels?
[00:11:53] Speaker B: Well, I knew what happened in the prequels, so it wasn't like a surprise. I knew most of the beats. I didn't know every single thing, so it wasn't like a surprise. But yeah, I don't know how it really colored it.
I guess I liked some things, and I didn't like some things. They felt very dated, especially Phantom Menace and to a lesser extent, half the clones. Revenge of the Sith I thought was pretty good.
But yeah, it felt like Phantom Menace was very much for kids, so it made sense why you loved it back then, especially because the main character was like, a little kid, so that makes sense. And then the other ones kind of grew up, so it definitely grew up with a certain generation.
I don't know, I was maybe a little young for it to see it in theaters. I was three when Phantom Menace came out and Elmo and Grouchland scared me in theaters that year. So maybe I wasn't ready for that yet.
Actually, I think I was two because it came out in May. Right. I wouldn't have even been three years old yet. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, I wouldn't quite been three yet. So I was two when Phantom Menace came out, and I didn't see him maybe until I was three when I saw Elmo and Grouchland, so was definitely too young for that. But then I remember some people at school seeing, like, Revenge of the Sith and stuff. I remember seeing ads for that specifically, but I hadn't seen the other ones, so I didn't really want to see it until I saw the other ones. And then it just became a whole thing. I mean, I always liked the robot chicken, Star Wars stuff, so I just kind of saw it in a weird order. Star Wars, I guess. I saw all the Disney financed, I guess, ones in theaters.
Although most of the time opening weekend I saw Solo, like a month late, but other than that, I saw all the Ones opening weekend, I think. So I got to be in the crowd for that. So I liked especially for Force Awakens, I liked seeing how the crowd reacted to it. It was fun to be a part of that. In a way. I wish I was kind of more of a part of it. I think that's why I dove more into the Marvel stuff, so I could be more of a part of it deeply and feel that adrenaline and stuff, you know, the community feeling in theaters. Everyone's like, nostalgic for during the pandemic. And then it was like then Spider Man happened, and a lot of people got it again, which is great, but, yeah, Star Wars has kind of been like this thing that's there and sometimes I'll be excited for it, but it's never been like my number one thing. So, yeah, I just find it fascinating how the fans act about it and stuff because I know people who act like that about other things and I feel that way about other things. But, yeah, Star Wars kind of is almost like the poster child for fandom in a lot of ways, both good and bad. That was Rambling.
[00:14:24] Speaker C: No, that's great, because I did want to talk about the culture of fandom and how as I've gotten older, I now look at the fandom in a totally different way than I did, say, when I was 13, 1415. Even prior to The Force Awakens and Last Jedi and all that stuff coming out, it's changed entirely. Growing up, I just didn't understand why people hated them, like, hated the prequels. And I knew it was a specific sect of people. It was I grew up with Star Wars and this ruined Star Wars and ruined there's nothing in here that's the then.
And a lot of it is because they had expectations of Star Wars already that these movies, what they might be, the fall of Anakin Skywalker. So when it didn't live up to their expectations and it didn't tie into the books that they wanted to, and I'm talking strictly the prequels, they were upset and they had grown out of the age that Star Wars is made for. It's all supposed to be an allegory for good and evil and all of that stuff, like all heroes journeys are. But when the sequel trilogy came out, I was now of the age where, oh, my God, I never thought we'd get another Star Wars. This must be what it felt like going into The Phantom Menace when it was announced for the people who grew up with Star Wars never expecting another one to come back.
And I was so excited. And we go in and The Force Awakens I just did a whole rewatch of the sequel trilogy. The Force Awakens is a lot better than I give it credit for. My biggest gripe is that I can pull out, oh, they wanted this character. This is that character from the original trilogy. Oh, this is that character and how they all come together.
But the movie is filled with so much hope. It sets up things so great. And then last Jedi came out. Personally, my favorite of the sequel trilogy and everybody that hates on it, I kind of get it. But I think that they're missing the whole point of the movie. They think that, let the past die. Kill it if you have to. A lot of people think that's the moral of the movie. The moral is that failure is the greatest lesson of all. Hence why they have a whole arc of everything going wrong and then you get to the end and you fail. And then at the end of the day, you're still alive. Can take that to the future, to the Rise of Skywalker, where I am a little bit on the down. I don't like Rise of Skywalker. It has great moments, but it's like The Amazing Spider Man Two. There's a lot of stuff that just does not work.
And I have watched pulling back, expanding from my personal feelings of it and looking at how everyone else feels.
The sequel trilogy did not live up to what I wanted it to do in story.
Mostly in the last movie, I think Force Awakens and Last Jedi sets up a great story that could have been was going to lead you somewhere great in the 9th episode. And then they reacted to fans instead of telling the best, I think.
And and I say that having just rewatched the movie because Rose Tico gets written out. Finn does have a great arc, but it's only done great because I think John Boyega comes in with such vigor and fire and power and, well, he comes in with the Force, if you will, in that movie. And it's got great character beats and stories, but there are certain things that you can tell they just did because, oh, well, they didn't seem to like this thing over here, so let's just keep pushing the stuff they did.
[00:18:06] Speaker B: Like, see, this is a problem I have with, I guess, franchise movies in general lately. And sometimes I will say some things they do that fans want that I like and I'm happy, but a lot of the time I get annoyed. Lately, it feels like the fans are writing things, and sometimes that can be a good thing. Like a lot of no Way Home I thought was really good, like the Spider Man movie for the two of you or anyone listening who doesn't know what that is. Yes. No way. Home is a Spider Man movie. I'm sure we all know this.
But again, I felt that even in that movie, there were moments I'm like, they're trying to respond too much to fans. Even like the whole Marvel Spider Man trilogy is kind of doing the MCU one. But especially no way home. It's like it's kind of annoying. It feels like you can see when they're writing stuff in response to fans and fan concerns and fan gripes. And again, yeah, that was definitely Rise of Skywalker shows all the time. I watched Glee when I was a kid, or teen, I should say. And they did that a lot on there. And, I mean, I thought it was funny sometimes. Again, I don't know. It's just like, write the story. You don't need to be met all the time. You don't need to directly respond to fans like that. Let your art speak for itself. Tell the story you're telling. Again, there's exceptions. Like if something was morally wrong, or inappropriate or offensive. Genuinely offensive. Yeah, maybe kind of do something there. But I don't think anything in the seconds not Rise of sky last Jedi was offensive that needed to be dealt with. But people acted like it was because they acted like it was offending their childhood or whatever, which that's a different thing than being actually offensive to something, you know what I mean?
But yeah, so I feel like this is becoming too much of a thing, I think, with things and even like Marvel's falling into that trap, like I said, a little bit and a lot of things are and I'm just getting annoyed by it. It feels like it's fan entitlement and it's just doing this over and over is going to feed more into it, I think.
[00:20:08] Speaker C: Yeah, I agree with that. And in a way we as the fans should feel a little entitled since we are paying their bills well, giving them that money. But at the same time, you can't control art the same way you can control an actual business. I mean, we can't even control our government in this world, it seems, with we technically pay their bills and all, but they don't listen to us. So it's like, what a Star Wars like reality that is, by the way.
And so it's know it'll be okay. I think in the long like with Marvel, I do enjoy that Kevin Feige is like, well, I'm going to do this and you can do this. And if it works, great. If it doesn't, I'll make it better in the future.
[00:20:59] Speaker B: Yeah, I like that.
[00:21:01] Speaker C: And I feel like we are at the stage in Star Wars now with the shows on Disney Plus that Favreau and Filoni are going to do that. I mean, they have already done it for a lot of people, being like, oh, who's ahsoka tano, I'm going to go watch The Clone Wars. And I'm like, yes, everything is proceeding as I have foreseen it.
And then it's giving extra depth right now in the book of Boba FET to the underworld and the machinations of that post Empire. And I just found out recently that there's a bunch of bounty hunters, the entire Bounty Hunters Guild, because I've not looked into the end of the war. I've just watched the films and I'm picking my way through the books and all the canon stuff that the Bounty Hunters hunters Guild ended up siding with the Rebellion because they were willing to pay the highest fee at the end of the day. And that's how they helped take down the Empire, especially after the end of the Death Star Number Two and that year gap between that and the Battle of Jakku, which officially ended, quote unquote, the Empire.
Yeah, and I almost went on a thrawn tangent because I love Grand Admiral Thrawn. He might be my favorite Star Wars character. I have an hour left of his latest book and I'm so excited to listen to it when we get off here, but I won't go into a book tangent.
My favorite thing about the Force is how and this is like a personal thing as time has gone on, because as I've grown, I've always looked at Star Wars and film as it is allegory it's meant to teach us a lesson, like all art and story and heroes journeys. And as the years have gone on and I've had more life experience, little lessons that I picked up on have kind of been colored. It's first said that the Force is an energy field created by all living things, and it surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together. Then we later hear Midichlorians, and the nature of the Force is always to just exist. And it's about balance, life and unfortunately, death, because you cannot have life without death. Unless, of course, you're like, I don't know, palpatine, because somehow he came back. But I digress.
The Force visions that people have and that anakin have have always fascinated me simply because I have had prophetic dreams for most of my life.
They don't always line. Like, I had a dream at 15 that when I was 21, I turned around drunk in front of where I was living at college and went, oh, my God, these are the three buildings from that dream when I was 15.
Wow. And my friends like, what are you talking about? And I was like, It's come true. They're like, Dude, you look at these buildings every day. I was like, yeah, but I'm drunk, so I see the truth now. And it was like, oh, I've had those visions. And it was entirely hard to understand and predict where that would have gone. And then I've had other dreams that are not as good of family dying and stuff like that. I am the product of a vision, if you will. I wouldn't say a product of a vision, but when my grandmother on my father's side died, technically it was like nine months and four days before I was born.
My cousin had a dream that someone in our family was just pregnant with a boy. And like, two days later, my mom found out she was pregnant with me and told everyone. So that's been like a thing that's been in my family.
It's strong in my family. There's stories in my family going back to different generations of having what they've always called the gift. So the idea of the Force has always been interesting to me because I think that there's so much to reality that we can't understand. And the Force, if I want to get back to science of it all, I could explain the Force as existing now as just radiation seeping in from stars across the universe.
And that was my weird tangent of trying to write the Force into canon of our universe. Thank you for coming to my ted talk.
[00:25:37] Speaker B: Wow.
How long have you been part of the online world of Star wars? Was it just after the 2015 movie came out, or did you do it when you were a kid teen at all?
[00:25:52] Speaker C: I think I really dove in after that's a tough question. I dove into wanting to know everything and wanting to be ready and help spread the lore of star wars to friends, probably. I would say when they announced star wars was going to come back out, I wanted to learn. Like, I went and researched all some of the books, some of the characters that might pop up just to have an idea.
But it did start see, it came out in five I probably started around 15, really getting in and learning what the culture online was like.
[00:26:35] Speaker B: Yeah, you were younger then, but then you got into it actually, when you were older, the culture yeah.
[00:26:41] Speaker C: I would say I was, like, knee level in the water of the internet culture, and then in 2015, I was like 70,000 leagues under the sea.
[00:26:50] Speaker B: All right, but you took a break in between, you said, right? Essentially, yeah.
[00:26:55] Speaker C: I focused more on the Marvel because they had stuff coming out.
[00:26:59] Speaker B: This was when marvel was doing, like was this when marvel was doing, like, the starting the cinematic universe, or was this still the x men fantastic four.
[00:27:06] Speaker C: Era when they were starting the cinematic universe?
[00:27:09] Speaker B: Right at the end, you were there since the beginning. So for that one, that's cool. So that was different. Did you notice a difference between when you were in it back way back when and in it more like closer to the modern day? I know 2015 was seven years ago now. It's hard to believe, but yeah, you know what I mean?
[00:27:25] Speaker C: Yeah, there's a huge difference because back then, there wasn't this weird obsession to spoil everything and have all these leaks and rumors coming out. It was like, granted, I think it was also some of the filmmakers involved at the time when it came to Marvel, we just didn't know what was going to happen because they didn't really know what was going to happen. Now we don't know what's going to happen because they don't want us to know what's going to happen. Star wars, though, when it came to the sequel trilogy, we kind of had an idea of what they could do. And then when the force awakens started, that is when theories went rampant. And I think that's when I really want to say force awakens is when the star wars community exploded into a new level, because now you had three to five generations online that are star wars fans, and not everybody agreed. And so there was a lot of infighting, for sure. And there still is a lot of infighting. There's a lot of angry star wars fans out there. And I know I come off like angry Star Wars. Fan, but I still love it all.
[00:28:43] Speaker B: Did you notice another cultural share? Um, when the shows on Disney Plus started, like when Mandalorian started, and now we're getting Book of Boba FET. Although we haven't gotten a lot of the shows yet. I know we're getting a couple more this year and next year, and more of those shows are starting to roll out. Is the culture changing again now, would you say? And how so?
[00:29:00] Speaker C: It definitely is changing. And how so is that? After last Jedi. Everyone loves Star Wars. Everyone loved what Disney was doing. Everyone is an absolute. I should not use an absolute only SIS deal as an absolute. A lot of people, most were really a fan of what they did in Force Awakens. The gripe. Was it's too much like a new Hope? But I like what they set up and there's a lot of potential to just continue on from there. Then it was a strong 50 50 split after Last Jedi.
Everybody. I think it's like a 10% of fans love Solo a Star Wars story, which I'll agree, bottom tier, Star Wars. Absolutely still love it because it's Star Wars. And then when the skywalker what about Rogue One? Sorry, rogue One is easily my top movie.
[00:29:49] Speaker B: Yeah, a lot of people I remember love that one.
[00:29:52] Speaker C: It's my favorite just because I can rewatch it at any point and not have to worry about the skywalkers of it all.
Well, in Rogue One, you only have Vader for two scenes, which were both a surprise, and then you have Leia at the very end, which was also a big surprise.
[00:30:15] Speaker B: No, I mean, why are you worried about the skywalkers of it all? Why is that a bad thing for you?
[00:30:20] Speaker C: Oh, because then I will feel like 100% like I'm obligated to watch the entire saga.
[00:30:28] Speaker B: So Rogue One feels more like its own thing and you don't need to watch everything.
[00:30:32] Speaker C: Exactly. I get everything I've always wanted in a Star Wars movie in that, which is the on the ground war movie of Star Wars on the scariff battle. And it gives me that spy stuff in the beginning, which I didn't know I wanted. But I was really happy we got because I always wondered, I was like, man, the rebels aren't these great guys. It's war. War creates monsters on both sides. As we saw in the everybody after Rogue One, everybody was really hailing everybody because hailing Disney and the praise singing their praises. They can do no wrong. And then Last Jedi came out and they said they can only do wrong. Rise of skywalker. I love Rise of Skywalker. Again. It's Star Wars. There's a lot of hope. It's my least favorite of the sequel trilogy. And after that movie, it was like Fire, Kathleen Kennedy, blah, blah, blah. Which felt like dudes more than anything because that's usually what happens on the internet, in my opinion.
[00:31:33] Speaker B: I noticed something about that.
[00:31:34] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[00:31:35] Speaker B: Okay. So I noticed something about mean, the Kathleen Kennedy thing. People have been saying it for a while. I remember it being like, after Last Jedi, they need to fire her, or whatever. I noticed after a lot of dudes who go after a woman after one failure or one thing that was less good, and they act like they never did anything good. Example being Patty Jenkins after Wonder Woman 1984. Everyone praised the first Wonder Woman to the high heavens. And then the second one, it's like, hey, we got to get rid of her now. Even though there were other people who did the story with her and stuff. And it was like a team, kind of she was the director, but there was also other stuff going going on. I yeah, again, I just noticed that a lot. And now it's like, I don't yeah, so they're doing the same with Kathleen Kennedy now, even though at worst, it's been a mixed bag from her, right. In terms of just overall perception. Because she did Last Jedi's comics Response and then Solo and Rise of Skywalker, which didn't get as much positive feedback. But then she did Force Awakens, she did Rogue One or like she was produced. She's producer of these movies. She did not direct these for those who don't know. And then she's overseeing, like, Star Wars one mandalorian is happening and all these other shows, which will hopefully be good. I heard the bad batch was good. I don't know.
[00:32:42] Speaker C: Yes, the bad batch is very she's.
[00:32:46] Speaker B: And she oversees the animated Star Wars, too, right? I don't know.
[00:32:49] Speaker C: Yeah, she oversees all of.
[00:32:53] Speaker B: Indiana Jones and some other stuff. And I know they're the ones who started Pixar, but they're not that anymore. But yeah, I just know they and they made a movie called Strange Magic, which is like this animated thing. But yeah, that's what yeah. Lucasfilm is mostly known for Star Wars, so basically she's in charge of Star Wars. Okay, sorry. Back to what you were saying. I just wanted to make that point.
[00:33:13] Speaker C: So with the shows, the culture changed.
Mean, there's still a lot of people out there saying, fire Kathleen Kennedy. That didn't change. That's probably not going until she tells everyone to. She flips birds and says, f off. That'll be the day.
[00:33:28] Speaker B: Honestly, unless she dies, I think people are going to be like, we got her fired. They're going to take credit for it no matter how late into her career.
[00:33:35] Speaker C: She mean, that's what the sith do. So I could definitely see that. But it you do, you're ruining Star Wars. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then the mandalorian starts. And then fast forward to where we're at in Book of Boba Fett right now with where we're at in Book of Boba FET. It still feels like it could go either way. It's still in the balance. The future is yet to be determined. And the Internet is yet to be determined. Everyone seems to love mandalorian A lot of people don't seem to enjoy Book of Boba FET so far. But when Kenobi comes out and all these other shows, I think that we're getting to a point in the Star Wars shows that what we've seen with Marvel now hitting their stride with Hawkeye. We are only on our second live action Star Wars show, and they've been.
[00:34:28] Speaker B: Doing it longer than Marvel, the live action shows. They got two seasons of Mandalorian before we got any Marvel live action shows on Disney Plus. And now we have four Marvel, and we're only on our second Star Wars, although third season of Star Wars content overall, so that's crazy to think about. I'm like, wow, star wars fans in 2021 was like Marvel fans in 2020 almost. Although at least you guys had bad batch. And I think something else. Was there something else?
[00:34:53] Speaker C: Visions. Vision?
[00:34:57] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:34:57] Speaker C: So you had a couple of things and Lego specials.
[00:35:01] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, the Lego special. I like that.
[00:35:04] Speaker C: Yeah, I love the Lego. The Lego Holiday special is the Lego.
[00:35:08] Speaker B: Star Wars Holiday special? But they won't put out the Star Wars Holiday special. And, like, it clearly exists to reference it, but it's like, oh, no, we're not going to put that out.
[00:35:17] Speaker C: I don't know if they own the rights to that. They probably do. And they just were like, let's save for a rainy day thing.
I would love a second live action holiday special. I say that having never seen the first live action holiday special because I was not alive. And it's hard to find those these days. I think it's around there, but from what I've been told, it's like a VHS tape.
[00:35:43] Speaker B: Yeah, I know. B arthur sings in it. That's one of the main things I know about it. She has, like, the song she's a bartender I love. So I'm going to see it just for that.
[00:35:51] Speaker C: If only she sang The Golden Girls.
[00:35:53] Speaker B: By the way, everybody. She plays Dorothy on The Golden Girls. If you know that show, that's who B Arthur is. For those who don't know, she should.
[00:36:01] Speaker C: Have sang thank you for being a friend. But in Hutiz. Oh, no, I just put an idea in my head.
Yeah, I think she was on that.
[00:36:10] Speaker B: Pre Golden Girls, too. Star wars holiday special.
[00:36:13] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:36:14] Speaker B: Before the second movie, I believe. And then Golden Girls.
Golden Girls started in 85.
[00:36:20] Speaker C: I think that sounds right. Yeah.
[00:36:24] Speaker B: Hang on, I'm going to search. When Star Wars Holiday Special came out, I think it came out like 79, 80.
Okay. 1978.
[00:36:34] Speaker C: Oh, it was the year the year.
[00:36:36] Speaker B: After New Hope, they did a holiday special. Forget a sequel. We're not doing that yet. But we're going to do a holiday special.
[00:36:44] Speaker C: The Book of Boba Fett actually just referenced that a couple of weeks back when he said that he rode oh, you want to ride a rancor. He's like, I've ridden beasts ten hundred times this size, and he rides a dinosaur in an animated sequence in the Holiday Special. Like, that's his introduction. Wearing the same exact mandalorian armor that the Mandalorian wears in the first three episodes of the Mandalorian.
[00:37:09] Speaker B: That's interesting.
[00:37:10] Speaker C: Fun fact.
[00:37:11] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a lot of Holiday Special talk. I'm sorry. It just fascinates me that it exists and it's like, it's just ridiculously silly. And I'm sure if it were to come out now, people would like, if people are saying other things ruin the sanctity of Star Wars, I don't know. The holiday special I heard is pretty bad. I don't know, maybe so bad it's good.
[00:37:27] Speaker C: I've heard that as well. And I'm glad you said silly, because silly is like my second favorite part of Star Wars because yeah, that's what it's about when humans interact the whole aren't you a little short to be a stormtrooper? That's a silly little line, right? Like, that's a silly little joke. It's like, ha, wait, the stormtroopers have to be like a specific height range? Is that how things work? And then there's the oh, you think that smells bad? You should smell you jokes like that going back and forth. And then jokes between C three PO and R two.
[00:38:02] Speaker B: That has always been jokes. I don't know why I mean, I get why people didn't like Jar Jar, because that was like a whole nother level. But it's always been silly.
[00:38:12] Speaker C: Very much so. And I will say there's like one stuff, the one thing that's silly that I just dislike in some Star Wars stuff is really the droid sequence in the droid factory with C three PO and R attack of the Clones.
[00:38:31] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:38:32] Speaker C: I just feel like it's so not necessary because we get C three PO. I will say we get C three PO going.
Die jedi scum. Oh, dear. What did I just say?
That's a great pop, I will give it that. But it's like, oh, man, let me just watch a bunch of Jedi fight like, droids with laser.
And you know what would be the silliest thing that I've seen that I thought is the latest episode of Book of Boba Fett time of recording. He was chasing around that little rat catcher droid and he's like, I'm Boba Fett. And he's and powers himself off. I died. I laughed for so long. I had to rewind it because I missed what they said.
[00:39:21] Speaker B: We just were recording this between the fourth and fifth, I believe, episodes of Boba Fett.
[00:39:26] Speaker C: Yes, that is correct.
[00:39:27] Speaker B: Yeah. So if all goes, the little be up next week, so the fifth one will have aired. At worst it'll be like the fifth and the 6th, but yeah. So if you watch Book of Boba FET, you know what we're talking about. So you'll yeah. So any other thoughts on the Star Wars community? I guess?
And you can take that any way you want.
[00:39:53] Speaker C: Yeah, the Star Wars community is overwhelmingly I still think I say it's like 50 50, but I think the people who yell the loudest are going to be the ones who are upset, and they're usually still the smallest majority minority. Excuse me.
And the bulk of us just love Star Wars and are willing to debate the things we don't like about Star Wars and to learn other people's perspectives because that's what it's all meant to do. That's what shared community is about, to share ideas, thoughts, opinions, and learn from other people. And I've followed a bunch of people on Twitter just because they're Star Wars fans. I've met people just because they're Star Wars fans and have listened to another Star Wars podcast that I listen to. And then I'm like, oh, you have a podcast. Well, I have a podcast and we've guested on each other's podcasts all because we love Star Wars. So Star Wars sure can tear families apart looking at you, Anakin. But it can also bring us all together because really, Star Wars is about a found family narrative. And that's what the community, I think right now is heading towards, is just being an entire world of a found family.
[00:41:14] Speaker B: That's great. And I think that's the perfect place to end this episode on. So thank you for joining us on our very first episode of Cosmic Cafe here at the Cosmic Circus. Really happy you joined us today.
And, yeah, this is great.
Yeah. So lots of good talk about Star Wars.
[00:41:30] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:41:36] Speaker A: Thank you once again to Thomas Carter Rochester for coming and hanging out with us here on the very first episode of the Cosmic Cafe here on thecosmiccircus.com. For more podcast content from the Cosmic Circus, be sure to check out our Cosmic Circus podcast where we have our writers and contributors coming on to talk about pretty much all things Marvel. Sometimes we can talk about other stuff, but yeah, it's very Marvel heavy podcast. So if you're into that, check that out. And other than that, we will hopefully see you next week for the next episode of the Cosmic Cafe.
